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Losing weight is just a matter of calories in vs calories out. Specifically it’s a matter of eating less calories than you burn off.
So just how many calories are we talking here? The answer is actually much lower than you probably think.
In this podcast we talk about how low the real amount of calories is that you need for weight loss, and why most people overestimate it and sabotage their own weight loss success.
John
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{ 119 comments }
You talk alot about bmr How does one figure out what your bmr what is the forumla needed to get to that number thanks John please e-mail me at above address thanks again
hi BP and BH – great stuff as usual. Just some footnotes I feel like sharing which may help other listeners.
I’ve had a six pack, cut to soft, for the last 10 years and I have never been in total control of what I eat. I’ve tried on and off like billio, but I’ve always consistently cheated, fallen of the wagon or let myself down… but I’ve never really ‘totally lost it’ and the only strategy which takes the pressure off really is just eat less total food – with more of the food you like most and much less of the stuff you’re not fussed about.
NB: one time I watched a documentary on Shaolin Monks with my then partner. She commented on how terrible it was they were starving(!) This was due to how they were ‘top on skinny’ and ate one meal a day. This counts as ‘starving’ in 21 century UK.
i’m a bit confused, the idea is that a calorie deficiet must be reached below the base metabolic rate, and at the same time claim that you can’t out work fat loss. But at the same time the calories burned in a workout can contribute to weight loss, or am I reading that wrong?
John,
There are different calculators online but they all have some built in error. The answer will require an article or maybe even a full podcast to explain.
Look for this info next week.
JB
Matt,
I don’t understand your question. Can you re-phrase it for me.
JB
John and Brad,
Best podcast yet. I will do a post and then send people from my site over to hear this. I love it that John is talking exact numbers…how much he is eating, the weight he has lost, etc.
I am trying to help people understand that they need to eat quite a bit less then many of the fitness mags suggest if they want to lose weight quickly and consistently.
I am going to listen again while working online today.
Rusty
Glad you liked it Rust Man!
We did this topic because as I’m cutting down people will ask me what I am eating and how much…and when I tell them they simply don’t believe me.
I just can’t imagine why they think I would lie! Oh well. I guess some people just aren’t ready to hear it.
JB
When you are eating that low amount of calories do you expect to lose much muscle mass as well? I’m trying the fasting approach but I am wondering if I will suffer any muscle loss. I’m only 2 weeks into it so I don’t notice any loss just yet but I don’t think I’m anywhere near the low calorie amounts you are talking about either.
Ty,
I’ve been keeping track of my shoulder and arm measurements and they haven’t changed, so if actual measurements are any indication, then no I have not lost any muscle.
My strength is also doing just fine (another indication that muscle has not been lost)
And finally there is no scientific evidence to suggest that I would lose any muscle as long as I am weight training through this reduced calorie state.
Soooo, my answer is: No muscle loss for me, and no reason for you to worry about it if you want to fast a couple times per week.
JB
hey john, so can you tell me what you ate in a given day. The exact foods? Just curious thanks
Keith,
Two cups of coffee with 1 milk and 1 sugar (each cup comes out to around 90 calories or so)
A tea biscuit or a donut with the morning coffee (around 250-300 calories depending which item)
A mixed greens salad with some chopped veggies like tomatoes, cucumbers, bell peppers, onions, mushrooms, oil and vinegar dressing.
Some chicken, maybe a leg and a breast with franks red hot chili and lime sauce (this stuff is so good)
Maybe a small bowl of oatmeal or a second salad.
Thats it.
JB
John,
Great podcast! Too bad I listened to it after just wolfing down a pound of chicken wings with some french fries!! lol (what can I say, a moment of weakness with the boys after hockey!)
My question is on a personal note, when you are in such a low caloric defecit, how do you deal with the hunger issue? Is it simply discipline and mind over matter, or are there different tricks you use in terms of types of foods, number of meals, timing, etc? Also, do you use Eat Stop Eat as well? I am doing East Stop Eat but I sometimes find it tough to not overeat on my eating days. Like I sometimes use my fasting as an excuse to overeat (not always but sometimes). Any tips?
Chris,
There really isn’t much of a ‘hunger’ issue. It’s only been a couple months and I have at least one bigger meal on the weekends where I eat whatever I want. This usually involves chicken wings, pizza and nachos while watching the orange and blue wrecking crew! (Go Gators)
Anyway, so I don’t really feel ‘hungry’ during the week as you might imagine. I eat 3-4 times per day, but each time is very small. As I stated above, it might just be a coffee and a donut, and then a piece of chicken and some veggies.
I guess you could say it’s just discipline or mind over matter. I think it’s more of a conditioning thing. Once I’ve set a goal and decided that I’m stopping after a certain amount of food for the day then it’s pretty easy to stay on track.
East Stop Eat was a big help for teaching me this kind of control. And I guess you could say that I am doing 15-18 hour fasts almost every day right now.
JB
Here is what I meant with my question earlier:
In one part of the pod cast you talk about how you can’t “work it off” kind of like saying it’s simply not possible to burn off extra calories and lose weight through increacing calorie expenditure through exercise.
Then later on you talk about increacing a negative calorie deficiet with exercise.
So I guess I’m asking, does the calories form exercise help or not or are you saing it’s all just diet?
Thanks again guys and keep up the killer info!
Matt,
Strictly speaking from a technical standpoint yes you can create a calorie deficit by working out more.
Realistically and practically speaking; that deficit is usually less than you think, and there is a very high probability that you will end up compensating for at least some of the extra exercise with either more food consumption throughout the day, or being less active throughout the day.
The extra calories burned at the gym would only matter if you controlled all of your food intake very strictly throughout the day as well as your non gym activity.
Make sense?
JB
Hmm, makes sense. I typically will do an 18-20 hour fast starting Sunday evening after a nice dinner, then I won’t eat again until Monday dinner. Then I do another full 24hr fast sometime during the week. It’s weird. I find somedays are really easy, and I hardly feel hungry at all (whether fasting or not) but other days I feel like I’m totally deprived. I wonder if the type of foods I’m eating on those days has an impact? I am really trying to limit sugar so it shouldn’t really be an insulin thing? I’ve only been on Eat Stop Eat for about 5-6 weeks and I’m in my 4th week of Adonis Build and Burn, so I guess I just need to stick with it and give it more time. Overall I definitely have noticed a big difference in my look and the way I feel so it’s not like it hasn’t been working. I can’t wait to see how I feel in another 6 months! Keep up with the great info guys, you guys are really helping a lot of people!!
yep makes sense to me, thanks for clearing that up.
wow love it!so true everything you say its amazing!so really if you are a girl and you are like 5’4 you really need to eat really less!how does one eat that little?i think i definelty over esitmate my calories..thankyou for opening my eyes!
Hulaggrl,
Yeah I’d say most people overestimate it big time.
The amount of calories for weight loss is really really low! Ha. There is just no other way to say this.
A good friend of mine is also doing a cut down and she shoots for 1000-1200 calories per day. But she also runs about 15 km’s 4 times per week along with 2-3 weight training sessions. She is about 5’1 and weighs around 126 lbs, she has cut down from just over 130 lbs.
So the calories required for real weight loss are damn low. Low for me, low for her, even low for my buddy who is a 6’5 300 pound bodybuilder (as I said in the podcast he was down to 1600 calories per day at the end of his diet, and the most he ate was only 2400 cals per day!).
JB
wow, this is some good stuff man. ive been overeating without even realizing it!!! i just discovered your blog and im loving it dude. now i have 2 questions.
(1) im 5’10 and i lost 32lbs already and weight 183lbs, i can vaguely see 4 abs and have that hanging pouch of belly fat, do i have to weigh less to see my abs and at how much? (cause i dont want to look too small/skinny)
(2) is there a direct correlation between weight loss(fat loss to be exact) and waist size(going down) and is there an approximate rate at which waist size goes down, maybe per week or per month?
Thanks
My favorite part of the podcast is not how little you need to eat but how little you need to weigh.
I’m 92kg/184cm now and was a bit scared that I’d have to drop to
around 80kg to get a visible six pack.
Now I know that’s a normal weight.
biggahboy,
1) If there is still a layer of fat covering your abs, then yes you need to weight some amount less to see them. Also you might need to drop some water weight to really bring them through.
At your height I would guess that you got another 10 pounds to go before you really see them pop. (and you won’t look small, you’ll actually look bigger when you are that lean)
2) There definitely is a correlation between waist size and weight. I’m trying to generate a formula for it. We’ve got a bit more data collection to do but i think we’ll be able to come up with a relative scale and correlation between height/weight/waist size.
With that said there is a bit of genetic variation on waist size…but I mean a small variation…probably an inch tops.
John
thanks John for your quick response and for clearing everything up for me
Do we need to make a distinction between eating for fat loss and eating for health? For instance, just concentrating on the calories will get you to goal but it may not be a particularly healthy diet you are eating. Losing weight will probably improve a lot of your health markers but being mindful of nutrition will improve health more. A type 2 diabetic would improve health better on a low carb diet and it will probably be easier to lose weight on.
So, should you go hard, not particularly healthy with diet to lose fat and then have a goal to improve nutrition or combine both? You have these dieticians spouting how un-healthy a certain diet is but should that really matter if its only short-term to reach fat-loss goal?
Focus on losing the weight first, as this may improve and normalize every health marker you have.
After that, you can make tweaks on how your eat based on how it makes your feel and if you have other markers you need to take care of (but for most people will likely be doubtful).
Hello John,
What do you think about weight loss plateaus? They seem to happen to many people. Do you think a “starvation effect” can occur where the body becomes more efficient at burning calories and lowers it’s BMR as a result a sustained calorie deficient? I lost 55 lbs over a 4 month period, and then the weight loss seemed to come to a halt although my eating didn’t change?
Sue,
If you’re eating low calories and losing weight then almost any marker of health you choose to look at will be improving and you’ll be ‘healthy’.
Also as you stated, most weight loss routines are short term. Clearly we couldn’t all be losing weight for the rest of our lives otherwise we would disappear.
So bottom line is do what it takes to get rid of the excess body fat.
From then on just eat a variety of foods.
I still don’t believe there is really an ‘unhealthy’ way to eat. I think almost all food related ‘health’ issues are simply due to excess, and have virtually nothing to do with composition of the diet.
Genetic disorders like diabetes are another issues entirely and require more attention that we cannot get into here.
John
JKO,
First of all congrats! 55 pounds in four months is fantastic! Good Job!
BMR doesn’t really change much no matter what you do (you have to be actually starving to death for it to start changing to any significant degree). If you were weight training during your big cut down then your BMR is almost assuredly the same as it was before you lost the weight.
My guess is you simply need to lower calories further to see more weight loss, but it is hard to say without me know where you started from and where you are now, and your training status and you height. If you want to discuss this further you can email me at john@adoniseffect.com
JB
hey john what would a 900 calorie meal be like?
One thing which I’ve been wondering on forever is, why do you need to include protein in counting your calories as well? I think I saw someone mention proteins during fast at the ALifestyle forum – and you answered when he was counting calories, he should first start with the proteins he took and then adapt the rest of his diet to that.
I know your body can burn proteins, if you’re starving to death without body fat, but in all other cases they will just be used to build body cells like muscle and other tissue? Like I seem to remember a gram of proteins ould be 7 calories (altho I’m not a 100% sure about that), then having a 70-120 grams of proteins would already count as 490-840 calories which would be about half of ur calories if ur cutting down. But since they won’t be used as fuel (as far as I know), say a 1600cal diet with these 800cals out of proteins, will only leave an actual 800cals fat/carbs for your body to to burn?
I’m probably making a thinking mistake here somewhere but I’m curious to find out where I’m wrong!
John, thanks for your reply.
You mentioned that if you do not control calories that you consume then no matter how much you eat, you will not lose weight. Though that may be correct for most people, it is not a hard fast rule. Go to any college cross-country meet – all the runners will be lean and they all eat what ever they want. I ran in college and would always drop weight once I started training. But most people are not able to exercise as long and hard as distance runners. It is simply about a net calorie deficit – net activity and food.
Didrikk,
Any excess calories will get stored as fat no matter what their source, this includes protein. Protein however is the least likely for this to happen to when fat and carbs are present.
Nobody eats protein alone for any real length of time, so this is a bit of a moot point.
So yes, protein always has to be accounted for in your calculations of your total calories.
JB
hi john,
what do you think of the harris-benedict equation for working out how many calories above your bmr you’re likely to be burning?
thanks,
chica
JB + BP,
Thanks for this, it is a real eye opener. Though first it sounds quite shocking – almos devastating – how low you have to go with clories in order to lose weight. But it does make sense: I remember once I went down to 1200-1500 cals for weeks, and I did not lose weight. So, I know what to do now… if it works, you’ll hear from me.
Thanks again!
Amy
Amy,
It is a bit shocking…but it shouldn’t be. The only reason any of us find it ‘shocking’ is because we all have a false sense of how many calories we ‘should’ be eating.
I don’t know where or how it happened, but we all (me included) seem to think that we should be eating at least 2000 calories per day…and we all seem to be scared of any calorie count that is below this number.
But the fact is almost nobody should be eating even 2000 calories per day let alone any more than that.
I’m a 6’0 tall guy and I’ve been training with heavy weights for about 15 years now, and I don’t even need 2000 per day, so I can’t imagine who the hell does! (besides pro athletes)
JB
You have added a new dimension to the matter .I need to elaborate on this.Thanks for sharing!
John,
The way you put it – it sounds so easy.
I guess this is the only way to think about food right. We are to set aside all the social conditioning, eating habits, emotions like self indulgement, and sense of rewarding and comfort. For a long time I thought weight issues are ofen only body issues, connect with pride or vanity. But in this aspect it is rather an issue of clarity of thinking about your body and its needs, and about addressing the problem on the right level.
I keep wondering about the problems of control in human life. We can reach great levels of education, we train our muscles, we control our rage and behaviour in general with considerable ease. (Well if not, that is treated as a deviance or addiction.) However, over-eating is not regarded as an addiction, though it may easily be one. Obesity is treated as an illness, I know that, but isn’t it rather a symptom? And it would be some food (ha) for further thought to measure a society that seems to miss this point.
(After these posts I will really feel embarrassed not to reach my goal… would you call it inspiring?)
Chica,
Harris-benedict is ok for estimating, but it has it’s flaws and some built in assumptions that can throw some numbers off.
The best way to know how many calories you need is to do an test on yourself with real food that you measure out. This takes all the guess work and assumptions out of it and you get a real life unquestionable answer.
JB
You don’t need to eat below BMR to lose weight. (even without adding extra cardio).
Wazzup,
How do you figure? Are you assuming the calorie burning of daily activity?
I agree that your body weight can change without eating below BMR. You can drop weight simply due to changes in water content and food content, but in order to burn any significant amount of bodyfat you have to be in a caloric deficit. That deficit can be created with movement or eating less, it just seems very unlikely that it can be accomplished with movement alone.
JB
John –
Thanks for posting one of your sample daily diets.
What’s YOUR daily activity look like? What’s an average week’s worth of workouts look like?
I agree with most all of your premises, but for me I always run into trouble when I’m TOO low cal (BMR ~ 1,800-1,850). My workouts eventually suffer after 3-4 days. I usually spend 20-30 minutes in the weightroom then an hour of moderate cardio (bike,stairmaster,swimming,etc).
What do your workouts look like compared to your intake of ~ 1,200-1,500 cals?
Bryan,
I follow our workout system (Adonis Index Workout), but I typically add one extra workout per week.
So we’re doing 5 workouts every 7-8 days. Each workout takes about an hour…21 total sets…rep ranges are anywhere between 21 and 5.
I do find that my strength does suffer with the really low calorie days. I’d say I’m about 90% or so of the strength I should have on most lifts when I am eating more food.
For example: I go very low calories from mon-fri. then sat/sun I eat more like my regular amount of food…then on monday/tues my workout strength is really good. So I’d say about half my workouts are slightly compromised, but no big deal.
For ex: if I can normally handle 100pounds for 10 reps, I might have to use 90 pounds instead…so not that big of a deal.
JB
Any ideas on how to deal with the hunger problem? I’m 115 pounds 5’5″ so by BMR is only about 1250 Calories, so weight-loss deficit gives me 750 Calories/day and even eating low-energy-density food leaves me constantly hungry =(
Working out helps for a while, but once I recover from the acidosis, I end up hungrier than before. Do you think exercising less would help with hunger?
Kat,
It’s a catch 22 with exercising and hunger. If it’s causing you to overeat more than the calories it is burning (which is very likely) then any extra workouts might just be killing your weight loss progress…on the other hand you have to be active and get regular exercise.
You might want to plan one higher calorie day per week just for the psychological break from the low calorie days. It might just help you get past focusing on feelings of hunger if you know you’ve got a higher calorie day coming. Just make sure this day isn’t too high on the calories otherwise you could undo all the weight loss you got from the low cal days.
JB
Hey John,
Great podcast, congrats!
First of all im really pissed that I just noticed the truth about this, the truth that we all really knew. It was just a simple observation. When we exercise a lot we get hungry and we compensate a lot and yes, less active day. This cycle has been my last name for 20 years.
I have a question. When you speak in a scientific way you include every kind of body type? Because lately I realized that almost all advice you get probably comes from masomorphs. I have friends that eat whatever they want and they look great. They don’t use weights or do diet, they just live. What about these people?
Also, eating this low calories and probably getting really lean, how could you build up some muscle too? I mean, Brad Pitt in fight club or snatch looked great but actually he was really skinny. He weighted like 155 pounds, but he had muscle and looked great. I have friends that weigh 155 pounds right now and its just sad the way they look. Does this have to do with body type too? How can you add muscle while consuming this little if you’re not brad pitt?
again great info, keep it up!!
p.s.
You voice sounds just like Mark Ruffalo’s!!
Kaiser,
Body type does play a role, but it’s still pretty much measurable for everyone. There is some variation from person to person, but the general rules apply to everyone.
Body type is a continuum and we all fall somewhere on it. There are very few true pure endomorphs and ectomorphs. Most people are somewhere in the middle.
So don’t worry about the extremes, just work on what works for your specific type.
And don’t worry about eating low calories while trying to gain muscle. There is no scientific evidence that you need to eat any extra calories to build muscle anyway. Just train hard and consistently.
John
BTW who is Mark Ruffalo?
Thanks JB =)
I’m still a bit confused about exactly how much exercise and this calorie deficit work together. I’m 5’11″, 187. I have a lot of muscle mass, and a visible 6-pack. I could still stand to cut down on some fat, but I’m mostly interested in losing some muscle mass. Are the concepts for muscle loss and fat loss the same? I’ve been a soccer player all my life, so most of my weight is in my legs. I want to drop a total of 10 lbs, so I’ve been eating 1200 calories per day. But I also work out like a madman. I use a heart rate monitor and burn at least 1,000 calories every gym session, whether it’s bodyweight circuits, a spinning class, or a combination of heavy weight (upper body only, no leg work) and cardio. Yes, I spend a lot of time in the gym (I *average* 1.5 hours per day) and do it 6 times per week, with 1 day of rest.
Problem is, I’m freaking starving. I enter each workout in a fasted state, and don’t eat for 2 hours after. Then, I’ll eat about a 400 calorie meal, with a balanced combo of proteins, fats, and carbs. Next meal is about 300 cals, like a can of chicken and tablespoon of mayo (fats and lots of protein). I usually have bacon for the last meal, for about 500 cals of mostly fat, but a decent amount of protein. I drink water only, and track my calories burned as well as measure my food. I’m not sure I can sustain at such low calorie levels along with 2 fasting days per week that I have been doing.
Am I being too aggressive in my calorie-cutting to have workout levels as high as I do? Sure, I could work out less, but I enjoy it and like to maintain my fitness advantage for soccer. It’s nice being stronger, fitter and faster than everyone else. Should I increase to 1400? 1600? What’s the appropriate level that will allow me to cut some weight, but still work out like crazy without feeling hungry?
Complicated question, I know. I’ve been trying to figure it out myself, but I’m stuck.
John –
I’d love to hear your answer to Andrew’s above question – his situation and mine sound very much similar. I love working out and having a desk job, I actually need to “overdo it” in the gym everyday to counter-balance being so sedentary in-front of a computer.
I also know full well that I won’t continue to get as lean as I want by eating enough calories to “recover” so-to-speak. I know that diet trumps exercise in the pursuit of fat loss, so like Andrew, is it better to keep daily calories low (1400-1600 for me @ 175 lbs) and drop 1-2 days/week in the gym?
Or at 175lbs should I be even lower than 1400-1600 cals/day Mon thru Friday?
Yeah I too would like to hear John’s thoughts on what Andrew and Barry have said… 6ft1 and 175lb here but still need to lose some body fat.. trying to eat 1200-1300kcal a day… Good god it isnt mych food, and I just can’t do much cardio else i literally do go light headed…
Andrew, Bryan and Jo,
Right off the top it’s hard to make a recommendation for any of you because I don’t have enough info about your exact shape, size, body fat % workout programs etc. And this blog isn’t really the place to be tackling it in depth.
Andrew,
My first guess is that you are overestimating the amount of calories you’re burning in the gym and underestimating the amount of calories you’re eating.
There is no workout I’ve ever heard of that can possibly burn 1000 calories in 1.5 hours (I think you need to check your numbers and you’ll realize you’re simply not burning anywhere near this much in a workout, most activity calculators grossly overestimate the calories burned through activity)
After all is said and done the look you have and the energy levels all three of you want to maintain should be your final measuring stick.
I have heard of people who have a temporary plateau in *weight loss* (not to be confused with FAT loss) because they start retaining water after being low calorie for weeks on end. This is a well known phenomenon called “dieters edema” or “starvation edema”.
It’s not uncommon for bodybuilders to experience something like this when they’ve been low calorie for months on end and their weight loss seems to stall…it’s not because they are gaining fat, but simply because they’re holding lots of water.
You could do a higher calorie days (3000 calories or so) for one day to offset the water retention effect (if this is in fact happening)
You can also use a 24 hour fast to get rid of the water. Both strategies have merit and you could experiment with either and see how it affects your look.
When you guys are getting down to very low body fat percentages (as it sounds that each of you are) then it’s simply hard work to push it even lower.
Try not to get caught up with *body weight* and pay more attention to *body FAT* and how lean you look overall.
Water retention/compartmentalization becomes a real factor in the look and weight of your body when you get to and below the 10% range of body fat.
A bit of water retention at this point could really change how tight or smooth your abs or body look when you’re getting this lean.
You could really tighten up your look and drop 4-6 pounds with a fast and a reduction in water intake. (which is what bodybuilders do before a show…but they also use diuretics to drop drastic amounts of water…keep in mind the truly shredded bodybuilder look is largely unsustainable and almost always requires some sort of water reduction drug/supplement to attain)
I’m not sure what image/goal you guys have for yourselves as far as a look goes, but you could also be shooting for something that is simply unattainable without some degree of drug intervention or drastic water cutting techniques. (just throwing that out there to get you guys thinking about what you’re really after)
The bottom line is that you guys all sound like you’re close to your ideal. You may have to accept that the progress at this point comes slower.
If you guys want to discuss this further you can email me at john@adoniseffect.com
JB
“My first guess is that you are overestimating the amount of calories you’re burning in the gym and underestimating the amount of calories you’re eating.”
It’s possible, but I’m following the Contest Ripped 1500 plan to the letter, weighing my food with a calibrated digital scale, and using accurate measuring for all of the foods.
As for overestimating, you say
“There is no workout I’ve ever heard of that can possibly burn 1000 calories in 1.5 hours (I think you need to check your numbers and you’ll realize you’re simply not burning anywhere near this much in a workout, most activity calculators grossly overestimate the calories burned through activity)”
I’m using a chest-strap HR monitor. I’m not sure how much more accurate I could possibly get. I don’t use machine calculations; I go by what my HR monitor says I do. And when I say workout, that always includes some form of high intensity cardio.
When doing weights, I’m usually averaging about 300-400 calories burned (depending on the length of the session) at an average HR of 146 or so. I add 1/2 hour to an hour of cardio on to that, doing HIIT, with usually an average HR of around 174 (yes, it’s that high of an average — I go all out and routinely get to around my max HR of 195).
Do you really believe that it’s not possible that I’m not burning 1000 calories? I’m really not trying to argue with you; Just saying that that’s according to my HR monitor and I don’t see a more accurate way to judge it.
I’m pretty particular about calibrating the monitor and weighing my food, so if you see any areas for improvement, please let me know. The issue, for me at least, isn’t that I’m not losing pounds. They’re slowly coming off. The issue with me is being hungry constantly and whether my caloric intake is just too low for my level of activity.
Thanks for taking the time to respond! It’s very much appreciated.
-Andrew
Hey Andrew… let me chime in on this from my point of view.
For me, when I’m dropping, I workout LESS… not more, from the shear fact of hunger and recovery.
Also, for me, more than 2 days of HIIT when I’m in a caloric def is a pain and really takes it out of me (makes me less effective throughout the day).
So, for me… I just weight train and throw in a day or two of cardio for conditioning (usually 20 mins max) and that helps me not feel like I’m beating the hell out of myself AND helps with any hunger issues.
Try that out for 2 weeks and see if it helps.
Oh… and if you want a more objective POV, email John a photo so he can get a handle of where you are
Interesting, but I thought it sounded like you overestimated a bit on how low you have to go to lose weight – for example you said a person with a basal rate of 1,800 who is eating 2,800 will just go on constantly gaining weight unless they eat less than 1,800 – but when you say basal rate do you mean the calories needed to maintain their current (excessive) weight (and doing no exercise), or do you mean the amount that would be needed if they were at their ideal weight? IMO if you eat calories over what you would need at your ideal weight you do not go on gaining weight for ever – that would be ridiculous (you would eventually weight 500 pounds or something just by slightly over-eating each day) – you gain weight until your body is of a size that tales the amount of calories you eat to maintain in terms of energy input. If you eat any less than you have been eating, IMO you will start to lose a bit of weight until you have a slightly smaller body and so on. Do you disagree? It seems to me that eating at less than the amount you need to intake at your ideal weight is only essential to lose the last few pounds.
What I’m saying is that as far as I understand it, a bigger, overweight body burns more calories a day at rest than a lean one, and you don’t seem to have factored this into your comments on what you need to eat to lose weight
Oliver,
A bigger body does burn more calories, but not a great deal more. As the bigger body starts becoming smaller it will also burn less calories per day, but the change in calories burned is small in both directions.
JB
Thanks for the podcast guys. I’m an active 35 year old woman, 5’4″ @ 120 lbs. I’m having a lot of trouble losing that last 1″ layer of fat covering my muscles. I workout about 4-5 times a week for about 1-3 hours each workout (ranging in intensity 1hr being the most intensive). My heart rate monitor registers about 400 calories burned and up to 650 for lower intensity and longer workouts)
I’ve read that eating below your BMR will cause your body to use muscle tissue and undo my hard work. Also it can cause your body to go into ‘fasting mode’ and not allow for further fat reduction.
My question is – Is there any truth to this and also – how do you manage hunger pangs? Since eating such low amounts would cause me to be grumpy and hungry all the time!
Thanks a lot!
Becky,
First of all, good for you!
There is no validity to the claim that your body goes into ‘fasting mode’ thats simply not how it works at all.
Lower calories is the only way to cause fat burning. I don’t really get that hungry so it’s not an issue for me, but if
you feel hungry sometimes just drinking something helps.
That last 1 inch could be partly due to water retention. Do you notice yourself getting smoother or tighter from day to day
based on water retention? This can make a big difference on how we look one day to the next.
John
John,
Enjoyed the info!!! Question: I have used the low carb, high protein diet before where I was eating anywhere from 2,000 – 3,000 calories a day and losing 2-7 pounds/week. I’m 5
’9″ and 180lbs w/ a BMR of 1819 cal/day. What was happening that made me lose so much weight?
Thanks,
Jeff,
how heavy were you when you lost 7 pounds in a week? How many weeks in a row did you do that for? How did you keep track of your calories and how accurately did you keep track of all of this?
JB
sorry for late post, been out of town. 198 lbs, 3 weeks (total of 18 pounds). Not very accurately at all. But a typical day was: 2 eggs sunny side up, 4 pieces of bacon, Hardees’ low carb thickburger. Nuts, Pork Rines, Cheese for snacks. Steak or Chicken and a couple glasses of wine for Supper. Unsweet tea and diet drinks. Took one day a week off so I could have some beer.
Truth is by the end of the 3rd week, I couldn’t take it anymore. Only so much meat and cheese I could tolerate.
Hi John,
Why is it that i am 6ft 170 pounds trying to get down to 160, and im still able to eat 2000 calories a day and still lose 1 pound a week. By the way, im 19 years old if that has anything to do with it. THanks
Keith,
I have a few questions:
1. How are you recording calories and how do you know you’re eating exactly 2000 calories every day
2. How much weight have you lost in total and over what time frame
3. How are you standardizing your weight loss measurements
4. Have you ever done a fasted vs fed weight measurement
5. What kind of workout routine are you following
All of these are factors that go into your weight loss measurements. Without knowing this stuff I can’t really comment yet.
JB
1. I know that i am eating about 1900-2100 calories a day cause i count them out.
2. i have lost 5 pounds over a total of 6 weeks.
3. not sure wat you mean
4.I do fasted weight loss measurements first thing when i wake up.
5. I do am currently doing an upper/lower split 4x a week, and im planning on getting your adonis system soon.
If you’re losing about 1 pound per week then you must be in a caloric deficit of approximately 500 cals per day. That is probably very realistic for you at your age and given the amount of calories you’re eating and the exercise you do.
JB
I live in Knoxville TN where the UT main campus is located.
Every 3 months I get my personal BMR checked on the VOX machine in the Athletics department. I also get my personal Body Fat level and Muscle Mass level checked on their BodPod machine. Takes all the guess work out of it. Where there is College & Pro football, there is money and titles at risk, hence these machines, so look around.
They only charge $35-40 per test and it’s more than worth it.
Hey, thanks for the advice. I have been eating less for about 5 weeks now, and I lost some weight in my first week. Around 3lbs. and in my second week 2lbs. But in the last 3 weeks, only 2lbs. I haven’t change how I eaten in that time. I don’t have access to a gym, but I’ve been doing body weight exercises and walking in my neighborhood, especially when my dog needs to go outside. Do I need to have a day where I need to eat more in order for my body to reactivate my weight loss? I read something about leptins. Something about when its low your body holds on to everything it has cause it feels like it starving right? Please help. I mean if you lost 25lbs in what 70 days and I only lost 7lbs in 5 weeks, I must be doing not right. I’m still 20 to 25lbs overweight and I know I need to get closer to my goal weight before I bring up the intensity. Please help me again. Lol. I would really like to feel comfortable in my body and stop staring at love handles and man boobs.
Johnny,
You gotta eat even less than you are currently eating. There is nothing else to it. The trick if finding ways to distract yourself when you would normally be eating.
Thats all I did.
JB
Hey Guys-
Not sure if you are still receiving posts to the podcast but I just got the link off Rusty’s email. I can’t believe someone is actually speaking the truth. Most people are so brainwashed by mainstream information that America’s waistline is increasing in the process. I suppose due to liability reasons the current literature has to tell people eat 6 times a day, eat breakfast, don’t go hungry, etc etc. That coupled with the food that is available on most supermarket shelves and the psychological marketing that plays on people’s mind means most people will not succeed at weight loss which is sad because they are just being misinformed and brainwashed in the process. Most people can’t even fathom just how LITTLE food we need to eat. I will definitely be checking in. Keep up the work!
Sara,
thanks for the kind words. I suggest you listen in on some of the other podcasts, you’ll probably find some stuff you like. you can also check out my blog and brad pilons blog for similar thoughts.
http://www.johnbarban.com and http://www.bradpilon.com
JB
Good job!
OMG I gotta thank you guys for spreading this great info and I wish I had a few million bucks to help you splatter these hard truths all across all mass media platforms and fight the food/health/supplement industries that spread the lies that I used to fully believe when I was a fulltime personal trainer (eat six times a day, you can work off all your fat, carbs are evil, blah blah blah).
Now that I’m in a different career and I only advise people on losing weight (because we all know that’s what the majority of people want), I can wholeheartedly tell people to spend money on a dietician instead of a personal trainer to get their calories in check since there is no gym telling me to push this supplement or no idealogy in my head to help people “burn off” their excess calories.
Also, I gotta give it up to Brad Pilon who helped change my perspectives on food and let go of the idea of “cheat days” and “stoking my metabolic fire” with 8 million mini meals which was such a headache.
In my own “Athena Index” type outlook I know the hip/waist ratio that I want and I keep it in check through a modified IF-ish type outlook on food and without as being as maniacal as I used to be when I was in a gym 24-7.
I’m a 5’4 asian female and I used to weigh about 145 a few years ago and went down to about 100 which made me look like a 10 year old boy so I’m at about 120 now which is the Goldilocks “just right” weight for me and I adjust my cals differently each day instead of prescribing to “1200 cals is what I need every day because that’s what the nutritionists say.”
I know this site is aimed at men but I LOVE LOVE LOVE this site. I love your “no b.s.” style and you have the most intelligent info. YOU GUYS F’IN ROCK!!!!!!!!!!!
Cheryl,
We’re working on the womens version and we’re calling it the “Venus Index”
I’ll keep you posted about it. Would you like to be a test subject for us?
JB
JB,
Hecks yeah! Being a test subject for Venus Index would be awesome.
Thanks!
Cheryl
Cheryl,
Email me at john@adoniseffect.com and we can chat more about the venus index.
JB
It’s kind of amazing that people are still having trouble understanding that it really is as simple as calories in versus calories out. I got turned on to intermittent fasting from ESE and this has made it so much easier to cut my calories week to week. I have been fasting twice a week and it has worked wonders.
I think that it’s not so much that people don’t believe how little that you are eating, they just want to find an easier way. They want to eat whatever they want and also lose weight. It just doesn’t happen that way. Like anything in life, there is a way to do it, you just have to quit looking for the easy way out and just get to work.
Keep up the good work guys! There are so many so called experts out there that just seem to contradict themselves, you and Brad, as well as Rusty have been incredibly helpful. Thanks guys.
Kelly, your second paragraph says it all. Slowly but surely I’ve come to fully accept a lower calorie diet (at least during the weight loss phase, and then right back to maintenance! lol.) For me, I think my rationalization was that since I was so big (255 pounds at the time,) that I could still eat a lot of food and still lose weight. But after losing five quick pounds (255 to 250,) probably mostly water weight, I’ve only lost a few more pounds (250 to ~247) over the last couple of months. I’ve reduced my calorie intake somewhat, but still not nearly enough for relatively quick weight loss (I’m shooting for ~70 pounds over 8-10 months or so.) At my current rate of weight loss, it would take a few years to lose 70 pounds. It’s easy for us to play tricks on ourselves. This weight loss thing is a mental game, almost purely a mental game, despite the fact that it’s *body* fat we’re trying to get rid of!
So it’s just been over the last couple of weeks that I have truly realized how little I need to eat. To think of all the years I’ve been reading, thinking, planning, and even occasionally trying to lose weight, and I’ve only grasped these truths now. Well, better late than never!
Hi guys!
I am a female but found your site and am really enjoying your stuff. I agree with a lot of it for the most part…i am just graduating in exercise science with an emphasis on nutrition..I am really interested to see a women site on the subject… As for your comments about how much food you can eat.. that is why it is good to be educated. If you work with a dietitian you can learn how to eat the right foods and not be starving. (i.e foods high in fiber.) The only thing i have questions on in decreasing your caloric in take to an extreme low for a long period of time. If you eat 700 calories a day your bmr also going to decrease to compensate correct?
Amanda,
BMR is controlled by lean body mass and if there is a decrease in lean body mass then there will be decrease in BMR. So although this might happen it is irrelevant.
We’re shooting for the Venus Index to be ready in the fall.
JB
John,
I’m also fascinated by this Adonis Index and the Golden Ratio – even my dentist uses this ratio for bonding teeth/adding veneers. What if a woman followed your Adonis Index program? I’m seriously considering trying it just to see what happens. I’m 64″ tall and I’m about 25lbs overweight however I’ve been training consistently for over 10 years (including figure shows)so I have a fair amount of muscle. I found this site through ESE and I thought your telecast with Brad was really interesting the other night. This information certainly blows the doors off of industry “recommendations”.
Sara,
We’re working on a similar system based on the golden ratio for women Called the Venus Index. We’re almost done collecting data on it and we’ve pretty much got it nailed down.
John
Hello
I am 29 yrs old, female, 163cm, weigh 59kgs, and am exercising 5 times a week burning around 750 cals per session and I intake between 1200 and 1300 cals per day, but that does go up a bit on the wknds I have to admit to about 1400 to 1600. I have toned and lost a little size, but my actual weight has not changed. I have to say that I do have a very balanced and healthy diet – I’m not dieting, I’m just eating healthy, and I’m getting all the kinds of food and nutrients I need. But I want to make sure that I am getting the balance between burning cals and taking in cals right to loose weight in a healthy manner. I don’t want to starve my body as that’s exhausting, unhealthy and it also makes your body store fat. Am I going about this the right way, or do I need to intake less or more?
Thanks!
I can see why John Barban is popular…he is articulate and to the point…I hope Brad Howards’ book comes off better than he does in this “interview”…sorry, it’s a tough world out there.
It’s not THAT tough
B
Yes, women listen to your podcast. LOL, it’s great.
Question: my BMR is 1477 so if i cut out 500 i’m just under 1000 calories. Doesn’t that put me in “starvation mode”? I’ve always heard that no one should ever eat less than 1200 calories. but then again these are the same people that count in exercise into their BMR. Thank you for stressing how stupid that is…. Thanks. T
Tonya,
Remember that BMR calculators are only an ESTIMATE. And remember that food labels and food counts books are also estimates, and finally keep in mind that most food items you buy aren’t exact portions and can easily have more calories than indicated.
And no there is nothing dangerous about the 1000 calorie point. If you’re a small person and you’re looking to lose a bit of weight you may very well need to be below 1000 calories to do so.
JB
Hello John!
I am awaiting to see the answer to Tonya and have one of my own. Trust me, I totally get the calories in vs. out philosophy but I strugle constantly and am really feel like I am going to go crazy. I have been told to add calories, cut calories, change work outs try this and try that and I cannot get down below 127lbs.
I am 38 yrs old, 5’1″ and currently weigh about 135 lbs. No one believes me when I tell them what I weigh because apparently “I carry it well” but I am not fooled. I have a busy desk job and work out 5-7 days per week. I do circuit weight training (I use 10, 15 & 20 lb free weights) and cardio (lots of running and cross country skiing). I bought a Go Wear Fit / Body Bug and I have worn it for months to generate a clear consistent idea of what I burn when and how (and even how burn is affected by more or less sleep, hormanal changes etc…)On the weekends when I am on the move constantly and longer owrkouts it says that I burn (in a 24 hr time span) 2500-2900 calories. During the week when I am working and working out in the am it averages between 2000-2300 calories burned. If I am down and out on a sick day and barely move it reads aproximately 1750-1800 calories burned. Do these things even work?? I can count on one hand how many times I ever hit 2500 calories on the most etreem workout and binge! I log all my calories on an online program and always add 50 to 100 calories to the total to compensate for underestimation. I CANNOT lose fat. Whether I am eating 1000 calories or 1700 calories…I have quite a bit of muscle but it really doesn’t mean a whole lot if I cannot see the fruits of my labours. I have been told that my metabolism is messed up because of years of low cal – you theory totally debunks this idea. Also, if my Body Bugg is right I should be a lean, mean machine right now (years ago!!)
What am I doing wrong?!
Help…
Thanks for any advice!
Kelly
PS
I eat clean 95% of the time
Kelly,
You are waaaay overestimating the amount of calories you are burning and you’re most likely underestimating the amount of calories you are eating (due to errors in the labelling, rounding, production overages in food and general estimation errors)
You simply need to eat less, and use the mirror and measuring tape to assess progress on a weekly basis and not the scale.
JB
Hey John
I have a question? I am trying to lose a few pounds by cutting calories. However, my job requires me to walk quite a bit. I’m talking around 8 miles a day on average(warehouse work). I”m always hungry. What do I need to do. I eat about every 2.5 hours to 3 hours. 6ft 158lbs. Try to lose around the abs.
Hi John!
Great podcast ! I’m currently on a very low calorie diet and weight training to try and lose the last 10 lb of fat that I have…My current diet is basically vegetables and protein to about 1 gram per lb of lean body mass so about a 100 grams and 400 cals+ veggies= 500-600 cal/day. I was just wondering though if I really need that much protein or if I could sustitute some of those cals for say a more fun piece of food at this point, even a cracker would be more fun! Will this cause me to lose any muscle? Do you take into consideration minimum protein requirements while trying to get very lean? Is it calories-in,calories-out while taking into consideration protein to minimise muscle loss or just calories in, calories out?
Thanks and please keep up the fitness industrie mythbusting!
Hi Emi,
I don’t know if John would completely agree, but there will some basic protein requirements needed, especially on a low calorie diet, to maintain muscle mass. Intuitively, there are basic building blocks for many of the body’s essential structures including of course, muscle mass. This also applies towards the maintenance of existing Lean Body Mass. For example, take 2 low calorie diets: (1) 1000 calories, primarily simple carbs with only 20 g of Protein/day & (2) 1000 calories, with 100 g of Protein/day and the rest of the calories coming from CHO & Fats. You’ll notice a big difference, especially if you’re a larger person (I am 6’0 and about 190lbs with 12% bf). On one, you’ll drop weight, but lose muscle, and on the other, you’ll maintain and perhaps even gain some muscle over time (provided a good resistance training program is in place).
this guy is full of crap
he is also my son and pushing 212 lbs
Hi,
Can I consume my daily caloric requirement in one meal instead of spreading it out throughout the day? I ask because I enjoy fasting during the day with coffee and water, and having a large dinner in the evening.
Thanks.
David,
Yes you can, there is no proof that 3 or 6 meals has any advantage over 1 big meal.
JB
http://www.myfitnesspal.com will create a deficit FOR YOU based on the amount of weight u wish to lose per week. If you haven’t checked it out, plz do so. Invest in a heart rate monitor so you’ll have accurate results. I joined in May 28 and have lost 16lbs but my next weigh in is on Wednesday. This site has you track EVERYTHING you eat so that you are accountable for what goes in your mouth. It WORKS!! You also track your exercise as well..it really is a win win. There’s so much support there for you. I love it honestly. I’m a 26 year old female, student, AND I work from home. It enforces a lifestyle change. I can’t wait to see where I am 6 mths from now! Hope it helps you guys!! =)
Stats:
Age: 37
Male
Height 6’2″
Weight 263
Starting Weight 285.
Weight Loss rate 2.98 lb/week
I calculate this weigh loss via a exponential moving average (see physicsdiet(dot)com for example of how this is done, or hackers diet), which places me a bit less than 1500 kcal a day deficit.
I have eaten, on average, 2107 kcal/day over the course of my diet. (As measured with food scale, package label, and sparkpeople calorie tracker)
Exercise is walking a few miles a day, and lots of dancing.
So, I guess if you have a good and consistent way to measure your weight, using a moving average, you can determine your caloric deficit.
So question. Studies show that it is easy to under estimate caloric intake. But is it possible that weight trackers (such as spark people) actually over-estimate calories? Even on days that I do not exercise (pretty sedentary lab job) I consistently lose about 3 lb a week while recording about 2100 kcal a day.
However, numbers for calculating my caloric burn seems just about useless, because the numbers do not add up from BMR and DMR etc.
Is it just best to eyeball a certain number, then adjust calories based on rate of weight loss (moving average), or do you recommend precise calorie measurement?
Also, what sort of measurement standard do you use? Every day? Mornings? Moving average? How do you account for fluctuations? What calorie counters do you use?
Regards,
Mike
“Studies show that it is easy to under estimate caloric intake. But is it possible that weight trackers (such as spark people) actually over-estimate calories?”
Of course, there are too many variables to try to be exact. Your portion sizes could be much smaller, etc.
As far as measurement standard, just pick the same time every day, under the same conditions.
A good time is in the morning, naked, after you’ve gone to the bathroom.
Accounting for fluctuations: you just realize that the water fluctuations are there, and as long as you’re TRENDING down, that’s the key.
We just use a basic BMR calculator and don’t account for exercise at all.
See this post for complete details:
http://blog.adonislifestyle.com/proven-never-fails-step-by-step-method-for-blistering-fat-loss/
hey john, i was just wondering why my buddy who eats 4000 calories a day cant gain even a pound in a month? hes prob about 5’8 and 135 lbs but eats everything and not a single pound in months?
Thanks for putting some facts into correct perspective.
I think many of us “beginner” or even advanced guys are way to much influenced by the covers of MensHealth or from some hollywood stars.
We are trying to look like them, the only thing we don´t know is that even THEY don´t look so good the hole year long. Even Brad Pitt can´t keep his perfect body in Troy. It is only for a short time which is a bit frustrating, but it seems to be the truth.
Sad that many stars or fitness experts always keeping up that wrong picture, they don´t care or even understand what it really does in the mind of a person who does not look that good.
So it would be interesting how a good body CAN look like the whole year long, what is realstic so we can make realstic goals.
But on the other hand, I´m watching WWE (pro Wrestling) for 20 years and there are guys out there who always look great the hole year over the hole career and I´m not talking about the Hulk Hogan bodytyp.
Many fitness experts often say that you have to be carefull that you don´t end up looking like a wrestler. I think they never watched Wrestling since 20 years because guys like Shawn Michaels or
John Morrison are no big guys but always looked good. That is a typ of body I would like to have but I don´t know if even that is realistic, pro sport is well known for bad stuff they put into themself.
Could you please do a quick websearch for pictures on my two mentioned bodys goals? I hope this is a body that everyone can achieve and keep it.
No reply, bad for me
Your opinion would be very interesting to me.
Please google on Shawn Michaels and John Morrison and
give your opinion if such a body is realstic for a “normal guy”
who trains 4times a week with weights and maybe 2x cardio
the week + watching nutrition but doesn´t want to go too much
in low carb and low calorie.
great post about weight loss! thanks for sharing
The general answer is 2000 calories.
General for who?
John,
What you’re saying is Biblical! People just don’t or can’t seem to hear the truth. I discovered Eat Stop Eat, which works for me, from Rusty – Fitness Black Book.
When I was younger I naturally ate that way and was always in shape. I started exercising hardcore (social pressure) and now realized I ate more to compensate for working out harder and since then BATTLED with my weight. Once I read about Intermittent Fasting I knew gut wise I was reading the truth. Once applied my body not only looked better but I physically and mentally felt better as well.
Thank you!!
Is there limit on the amount of fat the human body can burn a week?
not getting the right nutrients slow the progress as there not available to the process convert the fat?
Is there a limit you can cut and gain muscle?
I thought even a sedentary person would times there bmr by 1.2 so eating your bmr would still loose weight for me around 3/4 pound a week?
Hi John
When I dropped my calories that low I started to look gaunt and malnourished even though I ate good food – my bones stuck out! Yuck!!
So how do I get abs to show rather than bones??
nic
You say that weight loss is always calories in vs calories out regardless of the type of food you eat.
But this article from New Scientist reports on a study that showed that with the exactly same amount of calories the weight changes were dramatically different when one set was fed a diet high in trans fats and the other was not given trans fats
http://www.webmd.com/diet/news/20060612/eat-trans-fat-get-big-belly
Here is another link
Hey John, just listened to your podcast and it was very inspiring, intact between you, Brad and Rusty I have been able to stay motivated and stick to my weight lose plan, I started about 1 month ago when I first found out about fitness black book and you guys and at the time I was 6 foot 6, 256 pounds. Obviously my height has not changed but I am now down to 244 pounds so just that little bit has made me so happy and continually motivated. Id like to get down to 230 in the next 5 weeks and was just wondering what you thought about my routine so far. I spend about 1 hour in the gym (about 70% cardio and 30% weight training) and I’d say my average days food consist of 1 pack of instant oatmeal in the morning, 6 inch chicken sub on whole wheat with no sauce, chicken garden salad for dinner and usually a few almonds and cherries through out the day. Just wondering what you think and if there are any pointers you could give me? Thanks alot and keep up the good work!
Ok john… I agree with all of what was said in that podcast. I’ve listened to it several times now. One thing that keeps repeating over and over is the fact that everyone says that a bmr is set for each individual. I highly disagree Here’s why…I cut my weight down in school from 301 to 204 in about 3 years to make weight for the usmc so I know about what my bmr is to make a deficit. Here’s my argument. I think the bmr changes according to ones calorie intake over a given time. The reason I think this is why is it that I have friends who are lazy ass people that eat over 3000 Cal’s aday plus probably 15 to 20 beers 5 days a week,no joke. They do no form of exersise at all. One is unemployed. He’s 6’6″ and weighs about 185. He. has is a bean pole.even has ABS. How is this if scientifically speaking. he has a given bmr? Same goes for skinny people who can’t gain weight.
Ok john… I agree with all of what was said in that podcast. I’ve listened to it several times now. One thing that keeps repeating over and over is the fact that everyone says that a bmr is set for each individual. I highly disagree Here’s why…I cut my weight down in school from 301 to 204 in about 3 years to make weight for the usmc so I know about what my bmr is to make a deficit. Here’s my argument. I think the bmr changes according to ones calorie intake over a given time. The reason I think this is why is it that I have friends who are lazy ass people that eat over 3000 Cal’s aday plus probably 15 to 20 beers 5 days a week,no joke. They do no form of exersise at all. One is unemployed. He’s 6’6″ and weighs about 185. He. has is a bean pole.even has ABS. How is this if scientifically speaking. he has a given bmr? Same goes for skinny people who can’t gain weight who weight.
Basically can’t figure out if all the data saying this is so true then explain guys lke him. What you do about eating less is what I do when I wanna cut down like now. 60 days and I’m down from 235 to 210 as of today. I know kinda my bmr and go from there. Idk if machines that say how many calories are burned but I have a system of my own that combats this. My body is weird and alot of what you mention in this podcast j can contradict with how my body type is I guess. I could go on for days on all this but ill save it for nowlol. I listen to all your pods your full of great info and I’m always learning from you and Brad. Any questions for me feel free to ask I can tell u some crazy shit about diet and how things that scientifically are suppose probs work don’t.
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Well, the emphasis of this is misleading.
I think the empahsis of this is wrong. He wanted to spell out ‘how low you have to go’ and how there is ‘almost no way of going faster than 2 pounds a week’ and that ‘even huge guys have to go pretty low’ and also that exercise is a ‘bonus’
Here are some facts – between July 30 and September 15 2003 (about 6.7 weeks), I went from 217 pounds to 186 pounds – that is 31 pounds in 6.7 weeks, which is 4.63 pounds a week.
I lost no muscle – I was in my best shape and pretty strong – and was 6% bf, so does that make me a big guy, at 186 and 6 ft 1 1/2? Well, I was a physique model, solid, so I’d say my lean weight is significantly bigger than average, but no pro bodybuilder!
How did I do it? Well first it was easy as I was mentally tuned into it at the time, and sometimes I had to hold back. And the numbers were – consumed: about 1500, 1600 and 2300 calories a day on a three day cycle (but sometimes about 2000 a day continuously, and ‘holding back’ was eating about 2700 once or twice a week).
Exercise: 8 mile walk 3 times a week
additional 1 mile walk 4 times a week
7 mile run five times a week
1 hour of fairly slow-paced weight training and stretching, 3-4 times per week.
I RESTED the rest of the time. Watched TV or layed on my bed.
To me the obvious thing here is EXERCISE. Yes I 100% agree that you have to control calories, but once you have done that, the potential amount that you can burn is almost limitless. Don’t forget, with my fitness I could have burned 6 pounds per week if I wanted to. By the way, i stayed healthy and fit, with the weight off, all throughout and through the winter.
I would also add something else here -
FYI my lean body mass has not changed since 2003> Possibly I have gained 1-3 pounds of muscle but for argument’s sake, and as my best guess, I have stayed the same.
In September 2011, my weight including fat and water had been fluctuating between 226 and 229 for the past month, as my calories/training ratio had been level. I took myself off to Greece weighing 229 for a self-imposed ‘boot camp’ with the intention of returning weighing 220. I went out there and ate 1400, 1500, 1600, 1700, 2000, 1900, and 2000 calories respectively and ran a total of 27 miles, walked 23, and did 1 seesion of shadowboxing a press -ups. I return duly weighing 220.
From that return, to mid November my training was a mixture of good and non-existant, and my average calories were about 3200 a day. In mid November, I still weighed 220, still my lowest since March 2011.
My point: 10 pounds can be lost in 8 days and kept off. and then 10 pounds was not because I was stuffed the day I started, or obese or anything. Personally I dont think I can lose 10 pounds in the next 10 days, but that’s not the point.
My secondary point: The BMR or RMR for me on paper may be 1900 or 2400 (based on my ‘reasonable’ lean weight of 196 let’s say, not my actual starting weight of 230 or whatever) depending which calculator I use. In the real world, I know that if I stay in and do nothing, and eat 1900, I cant lose weight. However, if I’m active in my mind and walking to the car and working etc but not exercising, I seem to be able to go way above that for long long periods without gaining (let’s say 3200) – so my secondary point is that my BMR has a massive range. Which is kind of what John was saying but maybe not so strongly.
As a third point I would tend to agree that the closer I go to that 1900, the more weight I lose, on an almost exponential scale. IF I exercise a lot.
As I final point I would observe (combining with what I said in my previous post) that the bottom line is that John, you tend to make an assumption that so-called cardio won’t be done to the extent I do it. I have to admit I am maybe out of kilter with other bodybuilders here – I run outside, I often sprint the end, I do sprint intervals sometimes, and I very rarely train cardio in the gym. Yes I am lucky because I have a six pack at 196 (200 fed) – so I burn more when I run (and I also think I’m an inefficient runner), and in all fairness John mentions that ….. but the essence of his introduction and advice is that there is about a 2 pound limit, and that you must go way below ‘BMR’ beacause cardio is oft-negated.
I assure you, when I was in Greece in 2011, as in 2003, after 7 mile runs and 8 mile walks, I did NOTHING but lay on my bed or lay by a pool !
Wow! We can all benefit from what’s recommended here. Thankfully, I don’t particularly need to lose weight. That being said, there’s like no such thing as being in ‘too good shape’. Inspirational. People often ask me for advice, and will direct them here.
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