People sometimes ask why there aren’t squats and deadlifts in the Adonis programs. People “quote” studies of increase test production, etc… in a controlled study of course…
But what happens when a “free range” individual, with no coaching and no supervision… has this happen:
So much for deadlifting right?
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For roughly 2 years, I had the mindset that everyone should squat and deadlift. Then I moved across the country. That meant I was no longer training with powerlifters at a private facility. I had to re-enter the world of commercial gyms. And I’ll tell you what, it really is just irresponsible to claim that for the general population. As you said, without coaching and supervision, telling people to squat and deadlift is just a disaster.
LOL – yeah, we’re guys, since when to we EVER ask for directions on anything.
Wow…what in the hell was that all about? He fainted over 6 plates? Lame.
That guy seems very inexperience. But like it was said before, my arms give out first before my legs give out when using dumbells. That’s why I would still recommend using a barbell. Something was obviously wrong with that guy, plus it seems like he was maxing out which I’m sure you never have to max out in the Adonis workout.
“That guy seems very inexperience…”
Spot on – exactly the point of the post
Now wait a minute, the Build and Burn has dumb-bell squats/ dumbbell squat&press, and stiff leg deadlifts.
I usually just substitute a barbell squat for the dumbbell squats and a barbell stiff leg deadlift for the dumbell verision. I also add in a set of barbell deadlifts and squats on a separate day, but I have been lifting for a few years now.
The only injury I have had from squats was a few years ago from slighty pulled spinal erector, but doing bent over rows has fixed that.
“…but I have been lifting for a few years now”
Again – exactly.
Oh, and I should have said barbell squats and deads… good catch
I trained for 2 years before i attempted to work on dead lifts.
I wanted to make sure my core base was good enough. Then i started slowly with proper technique and only 30pounds dumbbells. Now i slowly progressed to 250, but i always do it with caution and the proper technique is the must. This guy is rounding his back and he should learn how to do it first.
His form was extremely dangerous. Note his back arch halfway up the movement. Could have been alot worse. How about trouble walking and bending over for the next year. Plus a lifetime of difficulty with ANY exercise involving the back.
Deadlift and Squat can be extremely productive exercises, but technically very difficult and VERY dangerous if not done carefully. Plus one’s particular body proportions can be a limiting factor (as with many exercises). So agreed, the risk won’t make sense for most. But if one is super strict with form and conservative with weight progression so as to minimize risk, they can be great exercises too. Keep in mind, ALL exercises are risky if not done properly.
He’s also holding his breath…
I use a trap bar for deadlifts, seems to help keep my form better than a straight bar.
i like pavel’s comments in safety 101 of enter the kettlebell.
if you get hurt IT’S YOUR FAULT.
and yup, the poor guy’s form sucked.
mc
True and false, it’s up to us to do our best to head most reasons for failure off at the pass.
But yes, ultimately, it’s up to you to do things as they are instructed…
for anybody w/o the cash for personal training and want to learn proper way to do exercises (like mentioned above) check out mark rippetoe on youtube. he helped me get my squats together. i sacrifice a lot of weight for better form, but i’ll live to tell the tale lol.
In 34 years of training with former Mr. Universes, Mr. California’s, Mr.USA,MMA World Champions, and numerous brand new inexperienced newcomers to resistance training, squats and deadlifts have some amazing benefits to overall strength and size and greater stimulation of natural GH. While I do agree these exercises do have an element of danger associated with them for the novice beginner, I would never preclude them in a training regiment on any kind of program unless their were sound medical reason physiologically for doing so. One answer to the solution that I found successful in teaching newcomers, is to use a smith machine, which is a practical and safe way for someone to learn proper technique. The risk of injury is eliminated from falling, althouth one still must work on the technique to not ‘tweak’ the knees or back. Coming from 114 lbs when I started, my fastest gains began when I incorporated squats and deadlifts into my routine in my third year of training.In 1975 when I started weight training,formal training systems and programs were unheard of and in all the years I have been doing squats and deadlifts I have only seen or heard about 4 or 5 injuries that could be classified as serious,i.e. hernias or a bulking disk. Even these injuries occurred due to recklessness. A good trainer or a good visual written training program would not eliminate these two ‘key’ activities out of ‘fear’ for any potential risk involved. I cannot speak for the Adonis System, however I disagree in the use of this ‘fear tactic’ to eliminate two activities that have helped build some of the greatest physiques of all time, and some of the best MMA fighters of all time.
A good trainer supervising… absolutely no problems there.
We’re talking about do-it-yourselfers. Most will assume they have it correct and have at it.
I see it everyday
Oh, and good call on the “fear” tactic… that was on purpose. More on that in today’s post
However that said, I think Mikes Adonis webb site has some great information. I just recently checked out ideal body measurements based on height, good stuff.
Look at this guy, what an idiot for giving it all on a lift!
Seriously though, have any of you criticizing him considered maybe he’s trying to develop strength and has different goals than you all? I know his form isn’t very good but watch any powerlifter at a meet and watch how their form breaks down when they lift in competition, nobody is perfect under maximal loads. And for whoever pointed out that he was holding his breath, you clearly know nothing about powerlifting, so just refrain from criticizing those stronger than you in the future
True that I don’t know anything about powerlifting and sorry to offend. I just noticed that when I hold my breath doing a heavy lift, I tend to get very light-headed/dizzy afterwards. Thought the same thing might have been at work with this guy. Maybe it’s just my inexperience.
Point being that when you’re lifting close to your max you’re supposed to hold your breath and push out against your abs/belt if you’re wearing one for extra core stability
“have any of you criticizing him considered maybe he’s trying to develop strength and has different goals than you all?”
Oh I’m sure he has different goals.
I hope one of his goals was dental work.
I laugh every time I’ve watched this video …
Really insane to ignore deadlifts and squats when you can either:
1. watch the free videos rippetoe puts out on youtube (this will successfully at least get your head halfway out your ass)
2. Or go to sites like mine with dozens of articles on teh same …
3. Or spend the $20 or whatever to buy Rippetoe’s starting strength and combined with the above your head should be succesfully free of the hold your ass has had on it up till now
Amazing
Later,
Caleb
“Insane” is a strong word… lol.
Neglecting them on purpose has never stunted my gains in the least…
More on that today.
Haha, ok, you’re right.
I just re-read that and “insane” is a strong word,lol.
But I kind of mean it, like this …
I wouldn’t ignore them because they’re potentially dangerous. Just do some research, talk to a powerlifter or two and do them … IF … you WANT to do them.
Totally respect that you don’t feel you need them Brad, so you don’t do them. That makes sense.
Just saying it’s not that hard to learn how to do them right IF you’re gonna do them.
(The alternative is lifting LESS than 2x your bodyweight in the deadlift, passing out, cracking your head on some weights and having your friend laugh while recording the whole thing on video, haha)
Best,
Caleb
Yeah.
Because deadlifts and squats are sooooo dangerous. I mean, there’s nothing like youtube or anything that you can get free video tutorials on how to do these exercises, and everyone everywhere who lifts without a coach ends up injuring themselves…
Wait… that’s not right. Considering how since I’ve been lifting weight, I’ve been squatting and deadlifting. I’ve yet to actually injure myself.
So what’s really going on?
How long have you been lifting?
Around two years.
I have a question.
How do you know this guy has had no coaching or supervision?
who teach him deadlifts like that? deadlifts are one of the most powerful (BIOMECHANIC) movements in human physical exercise(PERFORME in correct way),i dont think he is even warmed up for that,some body have to teach him much better way to do it or else next lift will be the last thing he is ever go in to do it,people get serious,somebody with lack of experience almost break his neck over dumbell rack…wooohh shame thats really gona hurt him.
He must have been following eat stop eat and deadlifted at the same time in a fasted state
). That’s what happens.
Thats the thing about you guys (Adonis Index people). You post some really intellegent articles, then go post some stupid articles just for show. For all you know the man may have fainted due to something he may have ingested prior to working out (drugs), medical condition, or something else entirely. I’ve seen worst form than that and ridiculous to somehow indirectly suggest that deadlifts will automatically lead to serious injuries or fainting if you are not being coached. Deadlifts are for strength and your site promotes physical appearance (A.I), over strength. Don’t start ripping power lifts when you guys emphasize something else entirely.
the video’s fake… the guy took a dive for a joke
What about the part at the end where he ragdolls and starts twitching?
Who said I’m ripping on deadlifts?
Read this again:
“But what happens when a “free range” individual, with no coaching and no supervision… has this happen:”
This is about why WE don’t have them in our base programs…
Do people ask if they can add them in?
Sure, that’s what the forum is for… letting more advanced people sub in exercises.
But the average person that jumps in with us DOES NOT have this type of training experience.
Was smacking his face against some dumbbells part of the joke?
Agreed
If you watch the video again at around 0:16 you don’t actually see his face hit anything… it’s out of shot. You do see his left hand HOLDING onto one of the dumbells. He’s caught his fall and made a loud bang with his shoulder. Any stuntman could do the same fall with as much realism.
Yeah, the camera work leaves much to be desired. It looks like his chin and neck are pressed against the dumbbells, and his head whipped back, a split second after impact, but we don’t actually see the impact, and his left hand is near the dumbbells, although I can’t see him “holding” a dumbbell. Of course, we don’t see the shoulder hitting the dumbbells either. Hopefully he’ll come out and admit that it was a joke if it was. It’s pretty convincing! He should go to Hollywood!
Ty,
If you follow up on the pictures that come after the video you’ll see pictures of the stitches in his chin.
JB
Oh man, that’s quite a gash! Maybe he’s an amazing makeup artist to go along with his stuntman prowess.
Ok, Ok, I’ll shut up :p
‘Thats the thing about you guys (Adonis Index people). You post some really intellegent articles, then go post some stupid articles just for show.’ – your opinion – and that’s cool.
I think the point is this: unless you’re a pro-athlete (hands in the air… let me count… and at the back… unanimous!)there are safer methods – just as fast and effective – of getting you where you want to be: ripped, in bed with a babe and with a longer life ahead of you.
I don’t want ripped shins, blisters on my palms, physio, elbow calcification and a fat gut just so I can say I can dead lift three times my body weight. (As I can already deadlift twice)
Hey that sounds like an ignorant post about people who deadlift many times their bodyweight and how they look. It’s more about the person’s diet that determines one’s appearance and there’s plenty of guys who deadlift 3x or more their bodyweight and are ripped or lean at least without steroids. Usually the ones that fit this bill are not brolic per say because without steroids and to have 6 pack abs they usually won’t look big unless the bf% is high also.
People think of powerlifters if they all fat and big but not entirely true.
Also want to say that I love the science behind the Adonis Index but the squat and deadlift is not that hard its a basic barbell exercise that does gives results. I started off by myself with just the book called ‘Starting Strength’ by Mark Rippitoe and starting light with the weight and improving on form and progressively upping the weight a bit every workout. After weeks one does get better if not getting greedy in going heavy over good form.
I personally believe that the Adonis Index workouts can benefit more by adding the barbell squat over dumbbell squat when one has the chance. Find a way to incorporate it start light or something.
Just by thinking about this I will ask a question on the AD forum to see how would u incorporate it in the AD
. Good blog btw .
Deadlifts and squats are badass I don’t think the article is trying to say anything else.
It’s just that 99% of people don’t have the patience to learn correct form. They just run in to the gym, put on a belt, lift as heavy as they can and blame “bad knees” or “bad back” when they get injured.
I mean honestly, all of you guys doing squats and deads (I do them too don’t worry). How often do you see people doing it RIGHT? And how often do you see people doing it WRONG?
The guy in the vid was probably like “Hey dude let’s film me lifting heavy yeaaah”. If he had experience he’d know not to breath in and out rapidly before the lift, and to sit down after a max attempt.
No you guys don’t get it. You see what happened was that he was trying to go immediately into a super-set of push-ups and he just miscalculated the distance of the weights from his face.
You don’t need advanced training for squats or dead lifts. They are both incredibly easy (and the best) exercises.
Research research research
Join a weight lifting forum with knowledgeable people
Start out with really light weights
Get a camera and record yourself
Post videos on said weight lifting forum and ask for a form check
Keep doing this till they give you the ok to continue
Go up on the weights gradually
???
Profit
As a complete novice I started squatting with 50lbs and dead lifting with 135 with better than average but not quite right form, and after 3 months (and constant form checks) i’m now squatting 225 and dead lifting 315 with great form.
Its not rocket science, you just have to make sure you’re not being stupid and rushing into things when you do it, AND ASK QUESTIONS!
I have injured myself from squatting and deadlifting and have been now for 9 years, thank god for prolotherapy because i would not be alive today to write this comment.
No one at the gym not even the guys that are there to help you out gave me advise on my terrible form and i laxed a lot of ligaments in my upper and lower back. My posture suffered greatly during all thoses years and the chiros i went to see did not help either causing even more laxity.
I have since then switch to leg pressing and leg extension and feel so much better, no more pressure on my spine at all.
You can build a great body without deadlifts and squats, worst is that i used to hate doing thoses and they cost me 10 years of my life.
How come the girlies do it in the Venus Index? Is it because we don’t try to lift 3 plates a side? I was only using 70lbs. Could this be how I hurt my back? Well actually I think the combination of shoveling a mountain of snow then doing dead lifts may have done it. lol
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